Tax hike to pay for social care... not very Tory!

[gremlin]

I'm happy to cough up. You could see the need long before the pandemic, what with the crusties living longer and demanding luxuries like a care home or replacement hip.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-58476632


However, I can see Torygraph readers harrumping as they digest the news over their cornflakes tomorrow. Bit, you know, socialist and all that.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I can see the need to increase taxes, but it's an odd way of doing it, why not just increase income tax?
Also the you only pay up to £86,000 benefits the rich a lot more than the not very rich.

[gremlin]

Also the you only pay up to £86,000 benefits the rich a lot more than the not very rich.

Tory values are built on the principles of inherited wealth. There are red lines, and then there RED LINES.

[Noggin]

Quoted from a friend on FB -

Best cabinet quote of the day: “After all that’s happened in the last 18 months they can’t seriously be thinking about a tax raid on supermarket workers and nurses so the children of Surrey homeowners can receive bigger inheritances.” in @Telegraph

TBF, not 100% sure what she means, but as she's VERY anti Tory, I guess is about not taxing the rich??!!

[Mr. Dazzle]

At the moment you pay for your own social care if you have more than a certain level of assets - £20k ish. They're proposing to change the rules so no-one pays more than £86k for their care.

So at the moment if you've got £500k you'll keep paying until you're down to £20k, at which point you'll get government help. If you've got £35k you'll also keep paying until you are down to £20k.

Under the next proposed rules someone with £500k would pay no more than £86k, thus leaving them with £414k to do whatever they like with (i.e. leave to their children). Whereas the person who started with £35k is no better off.

I find it hard to disagree with Julian's assessment.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

The other thing is, care homes are generally private businesses, rather than part of the NHS, the money gathered from tax will go to profit making businesses.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

You'd think a credible opposition party would point this out and use it to deride a government proposal

[Count Steer]

Well, it's consistent at least:
- they promised not to do it
- it hits the the poorer people harder than the wealthy
- they blame it on Covid
- it's was supposed to be for social care and it isn't.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I don't know why I'm pointing these things out as I'm likely to benefit from this compared to the current set up.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Another thought, you might as well spend your £86K on the most luxurious care you can find knowing that the state will pick up the tab after that.

[Taff]

My understanding is that the 86k thing is what currently happens not a future change. A reason to add it to national insurance is because the employee and the employer pay it so they share the burden (or put another way the gov get double bubble for the half price headline).

From 2023 this levy will be a separate line on your pay slip so future government can increase it with the excuse... But it's for social care, honest.

[Druid]

Another thought, you might as well spend your £86K on the most luxurious care you can find knowing that the state will pick up the tab after that.

According to R4 this evening, the £86k is the amount spent on "care", and does not include "hotel" fees. I'm assuming that care providers will make it clear how much of their fees are for care, and how much for accomodation etc.

[Horse]

Another thought, you might as well spend your £86K on the most luxurious care you can find knowing that the state will pick up the tab after that.

My FiLaw lived in a private care home.
My Father lived in a council-funded home.

If you're living in a self-funded place which is £1350 a week, don't expect to stay there when your money runs out.

[Skub]

My father pays for his own nursing care because his assets are more that 23250. What house isn't?
It's not true they leave you with the 23k they take every last penny,under 23k the government will help a bit to make the money go further.
It currently costs 3100 per month for nursing care.

[demographic]

We've had a fairly massive drop in trade due to Brexit, there's less money in the system I guess.

[Mr. Dazzle]

My father pays for his own nursing care because his assets are more that 23250. What house isn't?
It's not true they leave you with the 23k they take every last penny,under 23k the government will help a bit to make the money go further.
It currently costs 3100 per month for nursing care.

TBF I don't see why they shouldn't take every last penny. Why does living suddenly become free when you're old?

[Count Steer]

My father pays for his own nursing care because his assets are more that 23250. What house isn't?
It's not true they leave you with the 23k they take every last penny,under 23k the government will help a bit to make the money go further.
It currently costs 3100 per month for nursing care.

TBF I don't see why they shouldn't take every last penny. Why does living suddenly become free when you're old?

This should be interesting......

[MrLongbeard]

TBF I don't see why they shouldn't take every last penny. Why does living suddenly become free when you're old?

Too right, I'm gonna piss my money up the wall whilst I can, before I'm in need of care

[Count Steer]

My father pays for his own nursing care because his assets are more that 23250. What house isn't?
It's not true they leave you with the 23k they take every last penny,under 23k the government will help a bit to make the money go further.
It currently costs 3100 per month for nursing care.

TBF I don't see why they shouldn't take every last penny. Why does living suddenly become free when you're old?

This should be interesting......

OK. I'll start. It's not free, you're paying for it while you work. Some quick bag of fag packet calcs. 40 years work at (in today's money) an average of £60k for example = ~£0.75M in direct taxation and £0.3M in indirect taxation. Add in taxation on pension until you need care. You work, you pay, you get 'social security'.

[slowsider]

TBF I don't see why they shouldn't take every last penny. Why does living suddenly become free when you're old?

This should be interesting......

OK. I'll start. It's not free, you're paying for it while you work. Some quick bag of fag packet calcs. 40 years work at (in today's money) an average of £60k for example = ~£0.75M in direct taxation and £0.3M in indirect taxation. Add in taxation on pension until you need care. You work, you pay, you get 'social security'.

It's not ring-fenced - you have been paying for the previous generation of old codgers. Your care will be paid for by the future generation of old codgers.