Douwe Egberts Coffee

[Count Steer]

I do sometimes wince at the price of some foods here. BUT - in general, they are better than the cheap stuff in the UK.

I know that there is a lot of protectionism (I think that's the right word?) here - supermarkets can't sell drugs, pharmacies don't sell anything other that meds/health stuff, rules about farming, lots of co-op setups - but it keeps farmers living (different set up here, lots of small farms, not the huge processing set ups back there) and smaller shops survive better in general

I'd rather buy/eat less but eat good stuff than buy cheap and rubbish food. Just a case of retraining to learn to eat more seasonally (there are imports, but they are generally more expensive)

My sister visibly winced when I told her how much we spend on an organic chicken for the regular Friday meal. But...they don't shrivel to poussin size as all the water comes out when roasting! We get 3 meals/6 servings out of each one - tagine'y type things or chick'n salads with the remainder after Friday. (Once upon a time I'd have been boiling up the carcase for soups etc too but I'm not a thrifty student any more ). People will say they don't have time but once it's roasted the rest takes minutes prep.

It does seem that France is changing (in the cities at least) though, with more ready meals and fast foods but overall resisting the drift pretty well. It's not long ago that we'd go into a rural place for lunch and be surrounded by all the local workers (road menders, utilities workers, lorry drivers etc) sitting down for what's, essentially, a home cooked, 3 course dinner prepared by the proprietor (often a white haired lady of uncertain years ).

The UK stats on food prices/family budgets since the war is shocking. Looking at what's in people's shopping trolleys is pretty shocking too. The food available for people working out and about is just health-threatening.

Vive la France!

[Mr. Dazzle]

How many of you actively go out of your way to support food suppliers other than the supermarkets though?

I buy a lot of stuff from independents yes, but that's mostly 'cause it's better not 'cause I'm on a noble quest to protect them. Pretty much all of my meat comes from an old school butcher, but I'm 95% veggie so that's not saying much. I buy seasonal veg from small suppliers, but 'cause it tastes better.

I still buy Milk, bread etc. etc. from Tesco. Sadly there's no liberal guilt option to pay more.

Maybe we should get Whole Foods over here?

[Horse]

The % of the average family budget spent on food has been falling for years because 'people want cheap food'.

Spend more on decent food, actually cookstuff,

Through the last year, we have cooked almost every meal from scratch, perhaps had one or two ready made or microwave (aka 'ping') meals.

No doubt about it, it's cost more to buy ingredients, plus it's necessary to plan ahead to ensure you have them!

But, on those rare occasions when needs must, we really noticed the lack of flavour and texture in pre-prepared food.

[Mussels]

The % of the average family budget spent on food has been falling for years because 'people want cheap food'.

Spend more on decent food, actually cookstuff,

Through the last year, we have cooked almost every meal from scratch, perhaps had one or two ready made or microwave (aka 'ping') meals.

No doubt about it, it's cost more to buy ingredients, plus it's necessary to plan ahead to ensure you have them!

But, on those rare occasions when needs must, we really noticed the lack of flavour and texture in pre-prepared food.

Probably because they are healthier.

[Mr. Dazzle]

No doubt about it, it's cost more to buy ingredients, plus it's necessary to plan ahead to ensure you have them!

We do the food delivery thing with Gousto, so nearly all of out meals are made from scratch. I reckon is costs us less than doing it any other way (for the same meals quality of course).

Pretty much anything you make yourself from scratch tastes better simply 'cause it doesn't have to be "built" to transport and keep.

[weeksy]

I buy a lot of stuff from independents yes, but that's mostly 'cause it's better not 'cause I'm on a noble quest to protect them.

Where exactly would one find these places ? For example we have Hethertons bakery which is a local supplier of breaded stuff, a loaf in there is £2.30 or £1 in Tesco....
We use the farm shop for our meat, but it's better quality and the price means it's actually not massively different for the meat stuff, but some of their other stuff is double the price you can buy in other places, especially things like Pasta etc... £5 for a bag that'll do 1 meal.... Nah, you're being silly. They have cheesecake which is £6 for 2 slices in a box..i'm sure it's awesome, but £6 !!!!

Plus, what happens when the Indy gets bigger and bigger as more people use it and then become one of 'them' do you then take them off your list of suppliers ? Why is it that companies that make it big are dismissed ?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Plus, what happens when the Indy gets bigger and bigger as more people use it and then become one of 'them' do you then take them off your list of suppliers ? Why is it that companies that make it big are dismissed ?

Well yeah that's a fair point. I generally buy from independents 'cause they're better like I said. Most of it is simple 'cause their stuff doesn't have to be compromised by the fact it's being handled en masse and shipped half way around the world. Strawberries in December are always shit for example (in the UK).

Big doesn't necessarily mean bad. I buy some veg from Riverford.co.uk for example, they're nationwide now but generally the stuff you get is still local to you.

There's a bakery near my office that sells £3 Sourdough loaves and £4 packs of local butter. They're both really good, I could eat bread and butter for dinner and be satisfied! But yeah, £7 for some empty sandwiches is a bit spendy. That's part of the reason I started figuring out how to make my own bread.

[Count Steer]

I buy a lot of stuff from independents yes, but that's mostly 'cause it's better not 'cause I'm on a noble quest to protect them.

Where exactly would one find these places ? For example we have Hethertons bakery which is a local supplier of breaded stuff, a loaf in there is £2.30 or £1 in Tesco....
We use the farm shop for our meat, but it's better quality and the price means it's actually not massively different for the meat stuff, but some of their other stuff is double the price you can buy in other places, especially things like Pasta etc... £5 for a bag that'll do 1 meal.... Nah, you're being silly. They have cheesecake which is £6 for 2 slices in a box..i'm sure it's awesome, but £6 !!!!

Plus, what happens when the Indy gets bigger and bigger as more people use it and then become one of 'them' do you then take them off your list of suppliers ? Why is it that companies that make it big are dismissed ?

Just have to be pragmatic I suppose. We're lucky to still have a local butcher and a fishmonger and they're good so we use them. Cupboard staples like pasta - Sainsbury. Fruit, veg and some other stuff delivered to the door* every Wednesday by a local organic outfit. (The greengrocer couldn't compete with Sainsbury, M&S + Co-oP). Milk and other stuff delivered to the door by the milkman**. I don't mind paying a bit more if the products right but I won't pay silly money just to keep someone in business.

* to order, not 'you get what you're sent'.
** delivers ours at 3am! So it's there before people go to work.

[Saga Lout]

Our ancesters spent thousands of years starving as hunter gatherers or subsistence farmers and you lot are complaining that food now is too cheap.

[Mussels]

My biggest problem with local independant shops is they aren't open when I go shopping.
Then their independence comes into question when they are bound by council rules and effectively become a council franchise. Saw that on Clarkson's Farm when he was frustrated he had to get stock from 50 miles away because he wasn't allowed to use what a farmer 5 miles away produced.

[Count Steer]

Our ancesters spent thousands of years starving as hunter gatherers or subsistence farmers and you lot are complaining that food now is too cheap.

Not really, just pointing out what cheap foods actually cost in jobs, incomes, health etc. How much tax goes in treating obesity related illnesses caused by eating cheap junk food for example? Save with one hand, pay with the other.

[Saga Lout]

Our ancesters spent thousands of years starving as hunter gatherers or subsistence farmers and you lot are complaining that food now is too cheap.

Not really, just pointing out what cheap foods actually cost in jobs, incomes, health etc. How much tax goes in treating obesity related illnesses caused by eating cheap junk food for example? Save with one hand, pay with the other.

Smokers and fatties save the country £millions in pensions by dying early. All us fit, healthy people are going to cost the country a fortune by living to a ripe old age. We'll probably all get telegrams from the queen*.


* Who'll outlive us all because of her clean habits and healthy diet.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

How does shopping at a small independent store resolve the lack of lorry drivers problem. if anything it makes it worse because rather than the lorry going to one large store to deliver, lots of lorries now have to go to lots of small shops.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Saw that on Clarkson's Farm when he was frustrated he had to get stock from 50 miles away because he wasn't allowed to use what a farmer 5 miles away produced.

IIRC that was a quirk of the planning regs and the particular location of his farm? He can only sell stuff from Oxfordshire and he's right on the border I think?

I can see the reason TBF - from the local's POV Clarkson is a multi-millionaire who gets a large income from Amazon, ITV etc. He doesn't need to sell his farm produce. So they might be understandably hacked off when he moves in and starts competing with the business which pays their bills just 'cause he fancies playing farmer.

[Horse]

How does shopping at a small independent store resolve the lack of lorry drivers problem. if anything it makes it worse because rather than the lorry going to one large store to deliver, lots of lorries now have to go to lots of small shops.

One 'solution' to the driver shortage is fewer big lorries / more vans.

[DefTrap]

It's ok, the BBC are so anti-Brexit that they'll keep the scare stories current and on the front page.

It must be mad being the Editor for BBC News - having on one hand to be able to maintain the anti-Brexit bias whilst at the same time so happily able to lick the full length of Boris's putrifying arsehole.

[Noggin]

I do sometimes wince at the price of some foods here. BUT - in general, they are better than the cheap stuff in the UK.

I know that there is a lot of protectionism (I think that's the right word?) here - supermarkets can't sell drugs, pharmacies don't sell anything other that meds/health stuff, rules about farming, lots of co-op setups - but it keeps farmers living (different set up here, lots of small farms, not the huge processing set ups back there) and smaller shops survive better in general

I'd rather buy/eat less but eat good stuff than buy cheap and rubbish food. Just a case of retraining to learn to eat more seasonally (there are imports, but they are generally more expensive)

My sister visibly winced when I told her how much we spend on an organic chicken for the regular Friday meal. But...they don't shrivel to poussin size as all the water comes out when roasting! We get 3 meals/6 servings out of each one - tagine'y type things or chick'n salads with the remainder after Friday. (Once upon a time I'd have been boiling up the carcase for soups etc too but I'm not a thrifty student any more ). People will say they don't have time but once it's roasted the rest takes minutes prep.

The UK stats on food prices/family budgets since the war is shocking. Looking at what's in people's shopping trolleys is pretty shocking too. The food available for people working out and about is just health-threatening.

Vive la France!

One thing I very rarely bring myself to buy in whole chicken at the supermarket - just because I can't justify spending that much on meals!! I do use all of it and then boil the bones to make stock (for other stuff - much nicer than the cubes!) - so it isn't 'that' expensive in reality. It just looks and feels bloody expensive!! So, I do tend to buy thighs or breast packets. So not helping there. Until I have worked out more space here and am able to buy and store stuff better, I'll only buy a whole chook as a treat (or if I need to make stock!!)

Overall tho, the supermarkets near me seem to be franchised, so they do stock fairly local produce, alongside all the normal stuff.

I haven't found a butcher near me yet - well, there is one in resort during the season, but DAMN he's expensive (most products of all types are approx 2 - 2.5 times the price in resort compared to the valley). There are butchers in all the supermarkets but no idea where the meat comes from, probably not local.

A friend that used to run a cake stall at the market (now opening a cake shop!!!) has some good contacts for milk, butter, cream and eggs that I'm hoping to use when I'm down there more often (and working again!), so I might ask her about butchers/farms.

It does seem that France is changing (in the cities at least) though, with more ready meals and fast foods but overall resisting the drift pretty well. It's not long ago that we'd go into a rural place for lunch and be surrounded by all the local workers (road menders, utilities workers, lorry drivers etc) sitting down for what's, essentially, a home cooked, 3 course dinner prepared by the proprietor (often a white haired lady of uncertain years ).

That's still the case up here, well in this area, not just in resort. But I think cities are changing for sure

The % of the average family budget spent on food has been falling for years because 'people want cheap food'.

Spend more on decent food, actually cookstuff,

Through the last year, we have cooked almost every meal from scratch, perhaps had one or two ready made or microwave (aka 'ping') meals.

No doubt about it, it's cost more to buy ingredients, plus it's necessary to plan ahead to ensure you have them!

But, on those rare occasions when needs must, we really noticed the lack of flavour and texture in pre-prepared food.

Probably because they are healthier.

The precooked stuff is healthier????

[slowsider]

The % of the average family budget spent on food has been falling for years because 'people want cheap food'. Well, if that's really what 'they' want (and have come to expect), that's what they've got:
- supply chains that break under a bit of pressure
- automated farms with few jobs and/or
- farms that rely on cheap (often imported, seasonal) labour
- small farms going out of business
- transportation that relies on cheap (see above)
- shelves full of cheap crap of dubious nutritional value
- obesity issues
- food wasted
etc etc etc
Cheap food? As the saying goes 'Lord protect me from that which I desire'. (Or what you get is the stupidity of the £1 chicken, automated mega-farms/crap, underpaid jobs etc).
Spend more on decent food, actually cookstuff, buy less tat, fags and booze. Sorted.

I do sometimes wince at the price of some foods here. BUT - in general, they are better than the cheap stuff in the UK.

I know that there is a lot of protectionism (I think that's the right word?) here - supermarkets can't sell drugs, pharmacies don't sell anything other that meds/health stuff, rules about farming, lots of co-op setups - but it keeps farmers living (different set up here, lots of small farms, not the huge processing set ups back there) and smaller shops survive better in general

I'd rather buy/eat less but eat good stuff than buy cheap and rubbish food. Just a case of retraining to learn to eat more seasonally (there are imports, but they are generally more expensive)

You've the CAP to thank for that, and the cost of maintaining it contributed to the British perception that the EU cost a fortune and we'd be better off out.

[slowsider]

How does shopping at a small independent store resolve the lack of lorry drivers problem. if anything it makes it worse because rather than the lorry going to one large store to deliver, lots of lorries now have to go to lots of small shops.

It's a local shop for local people. And local suppliers. They're not buying in bulk, warehousing centrally and delivering en masse. The entire stock would look lost in the back of a 40 footer

[Docca]

Family of seven and we cook at least once a day.

Whilst we use the local butcher and get a weekly delivery from Riverfords, most of the food is still supermarket.

Pack lunch ( over school dinners) and a run of perishables such as bread and milk mean that we shop a lot.

Also eat out at least 4 times a month as a family.

Recently, there have been supply challenges in all of these areas. Last night we ate at Pizza Express and they were down to 1 chef. Very apologetic, but clear they can no longer get the staff. That could be viewed independently from this chat, or not.

I’m not clever enough to know what the solution might be, but the current approach doesn’t appear to be working that well.