New riding kit, what have you bought lately and why?

[Skub]

A pair of Furygan "Higgins" gloves to replace my ageing Alpine Star SP8s, as the stitching was starting to go after 4 or 5 years.

Admittedly they aren't Furygan's top of the range, but they are not pennies either, but however much they cost, are certainly not worth buying - I wore them at Pembrey this week-end for the very first time, got to crash in them second time out and this was the result.

The gloves are only fit for the bin- the leather (which tears like paper) went straight through, the cuff securing strap snapped and I've got a black fingernail and a mushed little finger as a result.


Very disappointing- I haven't had any Furygan stuff for a while and never their gloves but what I have had previously has all been massively better quality than these were- makes me wonder what you need to do to get the CE mark that they have- not much going by my experience

Fook.

Did you ever have the misfortune of 'testing' the SP8s Tricky?

[Tricky]

Fook.

Did you ever have the misfortune of 'testing' the SP8s Tricky?

Yep i have and like Bob I've had more than one pair of them they've been good- the SP8s don't have the extra security of the wristband which is the only negative on them for me but it hasn't mattered in my case and I'll be replacing the Furygan's with AStars, , probably another pair of SP8s i think

[KungFooBob]

Have I got freakish hands or do the SP8's fit fine everywhere, but the thumb is half an inch too long.

[weeksy]

Went to motorcycle mega store in Swindon to resolve the wife's helmet saga.

If you'd not seen, she bought a Shoei nxr which after riding on track this weekend she declared it was too big for her. So I've now bought hers and today was shopping.

She tried 2-3 Arais first. Then onto hjc for 3-4 different models, then onto Shark, then some agv lol. I don't know how many in total but it was a fair few

In the end she went with an NXR lol. One size smaller than the other.

[KungFooBob]

That is proper 80's!

[weeksy]

That is proper 80's!

Indeedy

[Hot_Air]

I wore them at Pembrey this week-end for the very first time, got to crash in them second time out and this was the result.

The gloves are only fit for the bin- the leather (which tears like paper) went straight through, the cuff securing strap snapped and I've got a black fingernail and a mushed little finger as a result.

Fukk

makes me wonder what you need to do to get the CE mark that they have- not much going by my experience

CE Level 1 only tests the palm's abrasion resistance (the rest of the glove can have zero abrasion resistance!). Though Level 2 exists, virtually all manufacturers only bother to produce Level 1 gloves because there's no incentive to do better. Even Dainese's £440 trackday gloves are only Level 1.

I know, there's also a test for cut resistance. But I once bought CE-certified gloves and found the upper was made of Spandex. (I returned them.) How hard can the Level 1 test be if Spandex gloves can pass it?

Is there any other sector where the industry has lowered safety standards as much as bike clothing? Imagine if NCAP lowered car safety standards each time it updated them! Unfortunately, the motorcycle poachers are also the gamekeepers: the CE standards committee mainly comprises representatives from the manufacturers (not medical professionals, etc.).

And Brexit appears to have made no difference because we’ve become an EU-rule-taker when it comes to motorcycle PPE.

[MrLongbeard]

CE Level 1 only tests the palm's abrasion resistance (the rest of the glove can have zero abrasion resistance!). Though Level 2 exists, virtually all manufacturers only bother to produce Level 1 gloves because there's no incentive to do better. Even Dainese's £440 trackday gloves are only Level 1.

Most riders wouldn't buy class 2 gloves, they're bulkier than winter gloves, plus it's difficult for a manufacturer to balance the ergonomic requirements of the standard with the protective requirements.
So, no or very limited market, why spend money in developing them.

I know, there's also a test for cut resistance. But I once bought CE-certified gloves and found the upper was made of Spandex. (I returned them.) How hard can the Level 1 test be if Spandex gloves can pass it?

Buy the standard from BSI and let us know.

Is there any other sector where the industry has lowered safety standards as much as bike clothing?

Yes

the CE standards committee mainly comprises representatives from the manufacturers (not medical professionals, etc.).

The committee chairs try and get a fair share of everyone from producers to labs to experts etc etc, hell I've been invited to sit on more than a couple, but if there's no takers (I declined) then they get what representation they get.

And Brexit appears to have made no difference because we’ve become an EU-rule-taker when it comes to motorcycle PPE.

Give it a minute hey, nothing happens over night.

[Horse]

Even Dainese's £440 trackday gloves are only Level 1.

So, no or very limited market, why spend money in developing them.

So, implications for:

And Brexit appears to have made no difference because we’ve become an EU-rule-taker when it comes to motorcycle PPE.

Give it a minute hey, nothing happens over night.

If we introduce a higher standard, would any manufacturer bother?

Paul Varnsverry struggles to highlight the suits sold on Fb, which have no CE at all. So a higher standard wouldn't be enforced either.

[MrLongbeard]

Implications?
A CE /UKCA 1.5, or something entirely new and state of the art.
Of course it'd be restricted to the UK, so tiny market, I doubt you'd get the EU on board.

If we introduce a higher standard, would any manufacturer bother?

The home grown manufacturers probably would, if a standard could be developed that exceeded CE ratings but cost less to develop and test against.
Of course there would have to be a step shift in UK legislation to recognise them as official PPE, which would take years.
But then A*, Furygan, etc etc etc have their brand to trade against, the major part of the battle will be to get new riders to accept safer kit over a trendy brand name & branding, that'd be an uphill battle.

Paul Varnsverry struggles to highlight the suits sold on Fb, which have no CE at all. So a higher standard wouldn't be enforced either.

Enforcement in this country has always been done with a soft touch.
Trading Standards have recently had a couple of campaigns against online platforms (Wish, AliExpress, Amazon, Ebay etc) and issued many recall notices, and that how it works, they don't have the funding to be ever present and monitor everything that comes into the country so have to rely on campaigns throughout the year.
But again because of the lack in funding they go for the low hanging fruit, testing PPE to a level where you can confidently stand up in court and say it's non compliant isn't cheap, and the chances of getting a conviction or successful recall notices against a faceless entity on Facebook who is probably just drop shipping from China or India doesn't come in on the right side of cost V's reward equation.

Long story short you'd get a bigger bang for your buck educating the general population on what to look for rather than just going for cheap or big trendy names.
?
Edit; and we have gone way off topic here @weeksy , maybe time to dump this depressing crap in 'staying alive'

But again that's not easy, hell just today UK Gov announced that the cut off to switch from CE to UKCA marking has been extended by another year, instead of ending Jan 1st 2022, they can continue CE marking until Jan 1st 2023.

@weeksy , maybe time to split this depressing stuff of into a new thread in 'staying alive' ?

[Yorick]

Lol at @MrLongbeard

[Horse]

@weeksy , maybe time to split (like Tricky's expensive new glove) this depressing stuff of into a new thread in 'staying alive' ?

ftfy

[Skub]

@weeksy , maybe time to split this depressing stuff of into a new thread in 'staying alive' ?

Sheesh,no one will see it then.

[Hot_Air]

Most riders wouldn't buy class 2 gloves, they're bulkier than winter gloves, plus it's difficult for a manufacturer to balance the ergonomic requirements of the standard with the protective requirements.

It used to be the case, but things have moved on considerably. A minority of brands (Alpinestars, Five, Spada, Belstaff) offer some Level 2 gloves, and they feel no different from Level 1 gloves.

I tried on some of the few Level 2 gloves (both Five and Astars) at a bike show and was impressed. I could only tell if they were Level 1 or 2 by reading the CE-mark inside the gloves. I'd tried on some Five gloves (assuming they were Level 1 like most) and only spotted the CE2 label inside by chance. One of the Five gloves had great 'feel' despite being Gore-Tex and CE2 - on my list for Santa!

[Horse]

@weeksy , maybe time to split this depressing stuff of into a new thread in 'staying alive' ?

Sheesh,no one will see it then.

You could probably count how many on your thumbs.

Actually, that might be on the thumbs of one foot

[MrLongbeard]

It used to be the case, but things have moved on considerably. A minority of brands (Alpinestars, Five, Spada, Belstaff) offer some Level 2 gloves, and they feel no different from Level 1 gloves.

I tried on some of the few Level 2 gloves (both Five and Astars) at a bike show and was impressed. I could only tell if they were Level 1 or 2 by reading the CE-mark inside the gloves. I'd tried on some Five gloves (assuming they were Level 1 like most) and only spotted the CE2 label inside by chance. One of the Five gloves had great 'feel' despite being Gore-Tex and CE2 - on my list for Santa!

Just checked Five's website, they're all chunky multi layered things.
I'll keep an eye out @ the MCN festival in a couple of weeks, but I doubt I'll change my opinion, hell I stashed my A8 GP plus gloves in a drawer never to be worn again after one ride because they're too chunky and they're only CE1

[Horse]

Just checked Five's website, they're all chunky multi layered things.

IIRC DaygloJim (who was a stockist) said that the Halvarsons struggled to get a glove up to the standards but that was comfortable to wear.

[Yorick]

All this CE stuff is shite.

They can make 1 super pair of gloves to pass the test. Then sell any old shite with the CE label.

You can tell the quality by actually trying it yersen.

[Horse]

You can tell the quality by actually trying it yersen.

What sort of things should prospective buyers look for these days?

It used to be that things to avoid included inset panels and single row stitching, and leather that felt like crepe paper.

[MrLongbeard]

All this CE stuff is shite.

They can make 1 super pair of gloves to pass the test. Then sell any old shite with the CE label.

You can tell the quality by actually trying it yersen.

And the same process applies to toys, electrical items, medical devices, construction materials, PPE, etc etc etc.
They're 'Type' Examined, you can't test every article produced, they have to demonstrate they can continue to make to that 'type'