Potter wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:13 am
Another tragedy and another two deaths in the channel from drowning/exposure.
That must be a properly unpleasant way to die, I've read that the cold switches you off pretty quickly and I would imagine the sheer terror of being thrown into the ocean like that probably releases so much adrenaline that it's perhaps over before you suffer that much, but it's got to be horrible.
The numbers crossing seem to be down though, any thoughts on why?
It's interesting. Similarly, the latest net migration figures would have been a record, but they've revised the 2022 figures upwards by a chunk, so that's become the record and the recent number isn't, so numbers are falling.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
irie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:20 am
Freezing out/ignoring what a significant proportion of what the electorate have voted for is ultimately counter productive
It’s wise to call 24% of a 78% turnout (does that make about one in five eligible voters?) a significant proportion, rather than a majority, but yes, that’s true.
If the new guy manages to get the Dutch parliament to do what he says, maybe we’ll see how much control the EU has over the Netherlands, in what passes for human rights these days.
Potter wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:13 am
That must be a properly unpleasant way to die, I've read that the cold switches you off pretty quickly and I would imagine the sheer terror of being thrown into the ocean like that probably releases so much adrenaline that it's perhaps over before you suffer that much, but it's got to be horrible.
Drowning is often and pretty much misunderstood.
A person in the water screaming and shouting isn't drowning; they may be in distress but they're not drowning. Kids drowning in swimming pools for example do it quietly and often unnoticed.
JackyJoll wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:00 pm
He’ll need a coalition with parties that might not let him do much.
Any party that refuses to go into a coalition government would be quite clearly ignoring a huge upswell of public opinion. They would simply be saying "We don't give a shit about what the public actually want!"
Lots of people want change, and not just in the Netherlands.
Let's not go wild here. They won 35 out of 150 seats so that's 115 seats for the 'not Geert Wilders' party. They're not a majority representing the country by any stretch of the imagination. If I'd voted for a less right wing party (like the majority of them did) I'd be pretty miffed if they hopped into the political bed with them.
To put immigration in The Netherlands into perspective, with a population of ~17.5m it has already had immigration of ~400,000 so far this year.
That's pro rata equivalent to the UK with a population of ~67m having immigration of ~1.5m so far this year. No wonder so many Dutch have voted for Wilders, it's a warning for all European countries.
Infrastructure simply can not keep pace with these levels of immigration. Just for example, in 2022 the UK built ~250,000 houses.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
Any party that refuses to go into a coalition government would be quite clearly ignoring a huge upswell of public opinion. They would simply be saying "We don't give a shit about what the public actually want!"
Lots of people want change, and not just in the Netherlands.
Let's not go wild here. They won 35 out of 150 seats so that's 115 seats for the 'not Geert Wilders' party. They're not a majority representing the country by any stretch of the imagination. If I'd voted for a less right wing party (like the majority of them did) I'd be pretty miffed if they hopped into the political bed with them.
To put immigration in The Netherlands into perspective, with a population of ~17.5m it has already had immigration of ~400,000 so far this year.
That's pro rata equivalent to the UK with a population of ~67m having immigration of ~1.5m so far this year. No wonder so many Dutch have voted for Wilders, it's a warning for all European countries.
Infrastructure simply can not keep pace with these levels of immigration. Just for example, in 2022 the UK built ~250,000 houses.
400,000 isn't the net figure though is it? Neither is your UK figure. The net figures are considerably less. They aren't all Muslims in the net figures either (I expect you know how many are German, Polish etc feature in The Netherlands stats) but Wilders wants to ban the Koran, close mosques etc. Not very secular.
Sure, migration is an issue that needs to be addressed and it will become more of an issue but he's trawled for votes using a very narrow message, which finds a lot of traction in certain groups who delight in spinning statistics to suit their particular prejudices and/or to gather votes.
PS I realise you haven't quoted the actual net figure for the UK.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Count Steer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:20 am
Let's not go wild here. They won 35 out of 150 seats so that's 115 seats for the 'not Geert Wilders' party. They're not a majority representing the country by any stretch of the imagination. If I'd voted for a less right wing party (like the majority of them did) I'd be pretty miffed if they hopped into the political bed with them.
To put immigration in The Netherlands into perspective, with a population of ~17.5m it has already had immigration of ~400,000 so far this year.
That's pro rata equivalent to the UK with a population of ~67m having immigration of ~1.5m so far this year. No wonder so many Dutch have voted for Wilders, it's a warning for all European countries.
Infrastructure simply can not keep pace with these levels of immigration. Just for example, in 2022 the UK built ~250,000 houses.
400,000 isn't the net figure though is it? Neither is your UK figure. The net figures are considerably less. They aren't all Muslims in the net figures either (I expect you know how many are German, Polish etc feature in The Netherlands stats) but Wilders wants to ban the Koran, close mosques etc. Not very secular.
Sure, migration is an issue that needs to be addressed and it will become more of an issue but he's trawled for votes using a very narrow message, which finds a lot of traction in certain groups who delight in spinning statistics to suit their particular prejudices and/or to gather votes.
PS I realise you haven't quoted the actual net figure for the UK.
The Netherlands net figure is lower, per capita about the same as the UK (see below).
To put immigration in The Netherlands into perspective, with a population of ~17.5m it has already had immigration of ~400,000 so far this year.
That's pro rata equivalent to the UK with a population of ~67m having immigration of ~1.5m so far this year. No wonder so many Dutch have voted for Wilders, it's a warning for all European countries.
Infrastructure simply can not keep pace with these levels of immigration. Just for example, in 2022 the UK built ~250,000 houses.
400,000 isn't the net figure though is it? Neither is your UK figure. The net figures are considerably less. They aren't all Muslims in the net figures either (I expect you know how many are German, Polish etc feature in The Netherlands stats) but Wilders wants to ban the Koran, close mosques etc. Not very secular.
Sure, migration is an issue that needs to be addressed and it will become more of an issue but he's trawled for votes using a very narrow message, which finds a lot of traction in certain groups who delight in spinning statistics to suit their particular prejudices and/or to gather votes.
PS I realise you haven't quoted the actual net figure for the UK.
Net migration into the UK was a record 745,000 last year, figures show - far higher than originally thought.
Office for National Statistics data published on Thursday show that experts have revised up previous estimates.
97% of UK immigration was legal.
2022 figures have been revised upwards. They don't seem to have a grip on the numbers do they? Wonder what they'll do with the 2023 figures next year?
Fine, we import cheap labour, many of them to work in key industries/services are from Asia etc - more so now that we've cut the EU links and that's a bit true. Funnily enough, we've imported them under a government that thinks 'Stopping the Boats' is the answer/vote winner. What percent of the 3% came in on boats? Remember, 97% are legal and not all the others came in across the Channel.
Muslim bait?
Do tell, what's your solution to the problem?
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
I am not going to quote all the stuff above, but ignoring a significant chunk of the population is stupid. The UK Govt did it over the EU for years, and look what happened.
Old saying, a stich in time saves nine. Recognise the worries, address them, or it will escalate. We could have stopped the EU's creeping powers years ago, we didn't, and then Joe Public (and me) said enough.
Count Steer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 6:48 pm
...
97% of UK immigration was legal.
...
Do tell, what's your solution to the problem?
That is the problem.
You solution is?
Change the law to reduce net immigration to levels consistent with house building, utilities, the NHS, schools, roads, and other social services and infrastructure. This is the government's job.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
Count Steer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 6:48 pm
...
97% of UK immigration was legal.
...
Do tell, what's your solution to the problem?
That is the problem.
You solution is?
Brexit!!!!
Oh wait, that didn't work.
migration_UK.jpg (34.62 KiB) Viewed 305 times
Hilarious listening to Tory MP's trotting out the same old tat with every yearly immigration figure, they've been promising to bring immigration down since 2010.
"There is no public mandate for it, it is beyond our public services' capacity to support and it undercuts UK productivity and wages by substituting cheaper foreign labour."
Potter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:09 am
What’s going on in the world, a woman and five year old girl stabbed in Dublin. Who the actual fuck goes around stabbing five year olds
Maybe she was brown. It sounds like the rioters were far right / Brexity types.
Potter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:09 am
What’s going on in the world, a woman and five year old girl stabbed in Dublin. Who the actual fuck goes around stabbing five year olds
Maybe she was brown. It sounds like the rioters were far right / Brexity types.
Brexity people in Dublin?
There is a suspicious lack of information around the stabbing and the protest.
Potter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:09 am
What’s going on in the world, a woman and five year old girl stabbed in Dublin. Who the actual fuck goes around stabbing five year olds
Potter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:09 am
What’s going on in the world, a woman and five year old girl stabbed in Dublin. Who the actual fuck goes around stabbing five year olds
Maybe she was brown. It sounds like the rioters were far right / Brexity types.
Brexity people in Dublin?
There is a suspicious lack of information around the stabbing and the protest.
Suspicious? The guy with the knife was a 40 year old Algerian. The guy that floored him was a Brazilian immigrant biker who smacked him with his helmet. The rioters/looters appear to be opportunist, 'economically disadvantaged' types from an area close to the city centre, spurred on by a few iffy social media platforms. We don't know if the guy with the knife was related to the woman and child yet.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
