In todays news...

[Screwdriver]

So what you're saying is that we've passed a tipping point and there is no point in trying to do anything to remediate the problem as basically we're all fucked?

I must admit that I share your view that whatever we do now we (or particularly our kids and grandkids) are in for a rocky ride with no guaranteed outcomes, but surely we as a species have to believe that we can actually turn this slow-motion car-crash around before it gets terminal?

I am saying that. When you say "surely we can..." that is the part I sincerely doubt.

I cannot answer with my opinion based on an holistic overview because the thread will be locked as irrelevant off topic yadda yadda. The problem is not down to you or me. It's not because of the one and a half billion China are "responsible" for so much pollution, it's not even the giant outputs from the USA, India etc.

Our world is in this state due to the excessive greed and obsession with "profit" from a tiny handful of the super rich who run this planet.

You could glue yourself to the road inside a deep epoxy table pour and it will not stop the giant industrial machine run by global corporations from doing whatever makes them the most profit. I keep banging on about "the great reset" because it is happing exactly as planned and right in front of our faces. A few years ago I would endure the tinfoil hat conspiracy nutter blah blah but I wonder if the penny has dropped now that this procss is well under way.

Does anyone really think having people like Bill Gates managing the industrialisation of food production is going to be good for the planet? Let alone the unfortunate non-multibillionares in the brave new world of corporate oligarchy.

[weeksy]

Our world is in this state due to the excessive greed and obsession with "profit" from a tiny handful of the super rich who run this planet.

Nah, not having it... This was the ending as soon as man discovered fire, engines, etc... It's just got there quicker and more harshly because of greed. But there were and are only ever a certain level of resources on and inside the planet. However it's possible that with the 'greed' and technology will also bring technology to repair things on the planet quicker and easier overall. Not yet, i'll grant you that... but one day.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I generally think the same thing when people complain about the super rich destroying the planet:

Who exactly is buying all the products from Microsoft, Amazon or whatever? It's you and me....

[Ant]

I generally think the same thing when people complain about the super rich destroying the planet:

Who exactly is buying all the products from Microsoft, Amazon or whatever? It's you and me....

And those companies do what to the planet and how?

[Screwdriver]

Our world is in this state due to the excessive greed and obsession with "profit" from a tiny handful of the super rich who run this planet.

Nah, not having it... This was the ending as soon as man discovered fire, engines, etc... It's just got there quicker and more harshly because of greed. But there were and are only ever a certain level of resources on and inside the planet. However it's possible that with the 'greed' and technology will also bring technology to repair things on the planet quicker and easier overall. Not yet, i'll grant you that... but one day.

Not sure I understand what your point is here. "This was the ending" so are you saying this AGW, climate change was/is inevitable?

What is happening is that the scale of operations and fossil fuel use has increased exponentially. The artificial and entirely man made concept of "money" has completely overwhelmed the actual natural riches our planet has provided. How can you put a monetary "value" on an acre of tropical rainforest?? I can tell you that, a few grand apparently. Never mind that is took millions of years to develop into such a rich biodiverse ecosystem, there's some good wood in there and MacDonalds can feed a handful of cows for a week before the soil is destroyed. Probably only take a few hundred years to grow back, so long as the entire area isn't burned to the ground. But right now, as we speak, the whole area is being burned to the ground...

I am reminded of Douglas Adams take on the matter with the Golgafrincham leaf based economy...

We already have the technology to mitigate harmful emissions. The problem is that implementing those technologies increases costs and decreases profit. Even though we are certainly paying enough to support those increased costs, they are simply NOT being implemented. Instead of using the money generated by our capitalist system to manage the harms being done, they are being syphoned off into the pockets of the extreme super rich. The sheer scale of that greed is breathtaking. Literally a handful of individual humans could completely solve world poverty at a stroke.

Instead, they just hide their money on the one hand and show it off with unfeasibly gigantic superyachts on the other.

You are right to point out there are "only a certain amount of resources". Now that humanity has spread to all corners of the globe and our consumption has reached epidemic proportions, it is a zero sum game: I win because you lose. The winners are congregating in Davos to decide how to play out the end game which they are calling "the great reset".

[Screwdriver]

I generally think the same thing when people complain about the super rich destroying the planet:

Who exactly is buying all the products from Microsoft, Amazon or whatever? It's you and me....

What choice do we have? I could refuse to buy milk in a single use throw away HDPE container but that doesn't wet my cornflakes does it. I have to buy products from the mainstream suppliers. Back in the day I had a choice to support a local producer but the supermarket conglomerates have hoovered up all of the production and built themselves a virtual monopoly.

Rampant consumerism does not help and I am not saying that "we" are entirely blameless but social pressure and advertising drives the human psyche so that we are compelled to join in and support the gigantic pyramid/Ponzi scheme that is the fundamental mechanism for capitalism to work at all.

That might even work if the financial benefit was shared equally or more equitably. But no, now that the end game is in sight, the super rich have doubled down on their quest to literally own everything and "fuck the planet"...

[Horse]

I generally think the same thing when people complain about the super rich destroying the planet:

Who exactly is buying all the products from Microsoft, Amazon or whatever? It's you and me....

Lots of noise on the street's WhatsApp group because a phone company want to bung up a mast.

Now, to be fair, the planning application is riddled with errors and was refused.

But how many of those complaining were doing so on a mobile phone?

[Mr. Dazzle]

I generally think the same thing when people complain about the super rich destroying the planet:

Who exactly is buying all the products from Microsoft, Amazon or whatever? It's you and me....

What choice do we have? I could refuse to buy milk in a single use throw away HDPE container but that doesn't wet my cornflakes does it. I have to buy products from the mainstream suppliers. Back in the day I had a choice to support a local producer but the supermarket conglomerates have hoovered up all of the production and built themselves a virtual monopoly.

Rampant consumerism does not help and I am not saying that "we" are entirely blameless but social pressure and advertising drives the human psyche so that we are compelled to join in and support the gigantic pyramid/Ponzi scheme that is the fundamental mechanism for capitalism to work at all.

That might even work if the financial benefit was shared equally or more equitably. But no, now that the end game is in sight, the super rich have doubled down on their quest to literally own everything and "fuck the planet"...

It does seem like a losing battle sometimes, but the general populace only have themselves to blame IMO.

Milk is a good example. If everyone had said "you know what? I'm actually gonna keep buying milk in reusable glass bottles and bollox to the supermarket" there'd still be loads of milkmen wouldn't there? I can see why you wouldn't do that, Supermarkets are cheap, but that's the reality innit?

[gremlin]

I struggle with this...

Archbishop will not use new prayer blessing for gay couples

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64342940

Why would a gay couple want a blessing from a church that has, in previous episodes had them killed, ostracized and heaped all sorts on indignity upon them simply because of their sexuality?

Church: 'Good news, Gays! We've agreed to say a prayer for you if you want it. Aren't we lovely?

Gays: 'Stick it up your Medieval, backward thinking arsehole'.

[dern]

Milk is a good example. If everyone had said "you know what? I'm actually gonna keep buying milk in reusable glass bottles and bollox to the supermarket" there'd still be loads of milkmen wouldn't there? I can see why you wouldn't do that, Supermarkets are cheap, but that's the reality innit?

From what I've read reusable glass has a higher environmental impact than the HDPE what we use now.

[DefTrap]

From what I've read reusable glass has a higher environmental impact than the HDPE what we use now.

What - ones that are washed out and refilled? How so?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Rather depends on how many times you use it i suppose.

BTW supermarkets started selling bags of milk didn't they? Still plastic but loads less. What happened to that idea?

[Skub]

I struggle with this...
Why would a gay couple want a blessing from a church that has, in previous episodes had them killed, ostracized and heaped all sorts on indignity upon them simply because of their sexuality?

I don't think I'm qualified on any front to accurately comment on that,however like most I can anecdote the hell out of most things.

I have a friend who is gay and a fairly devout christian. Here we have loads of flavours of fundamental evangelical churches,most of whom believe homosexuality is a sin,or a mental illness which can be cured if you want to stop being a pervert and repent. Being gay and christian is anti scriptural to them,the two cannot coexist.
Attitudes are slowly moderating in some churches,but it's still a case of glacial speed progress,so I guess presently gay people of faith must view this as a starting point for a fairer outlook.

[dern]

From what I've read reusable glass has a higher environmental impact than the HDPE what we use now.

What - ones that are washed out and refilled? How so?

Very high impact during manufacture, weight during transport and so on. Counter intuitive but there you go. This links through to the paper if you want to know more... https://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2020 ... mpact.page

[Mr. Dazzle]

I struggle with this...
Why would a gay couple want a blessing from a church that has, in previous episodes had them killed, ostracized and heaped all sorts on indignity upon them simply because of their sexuality?

I don't think I'm qualified on any front to accurately comment on that,however like most I can anecdoe the hell out of most things.

I have a friend who is gay and a fairly devout christian. Here we have loads of flavours of fundamental evangelical churches,most of whom believe homosexuality is a sin,or a mental illness which can be cured if you want to stop being a pervert and repent. Being gay and christian is anti scriptural to them,the two cannot coexist.
Attitudes are slowly moderating in some churches,but it's still a case of glacial speed progress,so I guess presently gay people of faith must view this as a starting point for a fairer outlook.

I imagine people grow up Christian quite a few years before they also start growing up gay? Probably quite hard to undo the former.

[Ant]

That goes against the brain washing agenda, those cult followers won't be having any of that!

[Count Steer]

From what I've read reusable glass has a higher environmental impact than the HDPE what we use now.

What - ones that are washed out and refilled? How so?

The balance point is about 20 cycles of reuse apparently. Some claim the average reuse is 18 cycles but it depends a lot on the supplier. Some local dairies get up to 60/3 years out of a bottle. It also depends how far you ship in bottles as they're heavier.

I think my milkman (Milk and More) said they were aiming to get from 30 average to 45.

[Gregor]

'Rehoming'? Yeah, right. Tommy's for the glue factory.

ACHAB

[JackyJoll]

Why would a gay couple want a blessing from a church that has, in previous episodes had them killed, ostracized and heaped all sorts on indignity upon them simply because of their sexuality?

For aesthetic reasons, same as most of the bride & groom couples who want to marry in a church.

[mangocrazy]

We already have the technology to mitigate harmful emissions. The problem is that implementing those technologies increases costs and decreases profit. Even though we are certainly paying enough to support those increased costs, they are simply NOT being implemented. Instead of using the money generated by our capitalist system to manage the harms being done, they are being syphoned off into the pockets of the extreme super rich. The sheer scale of that greed is breathtaking. Literally a handful of individual humans could completely solve world poverty at a stroke.

Instead, they just hide their money on the one hand and show it off with unfeasibly gigantic superyachts on the other.

You are right to point out there are "only a certain amount of resources". Now that humanity has spread to all corners of the globe and our consumption has reached epidemic proportions, it is a zero sum game: I win because you lose. The winners are congregating in Davos to decide how to play out the end game which they are calling "the great reset".

I'm with you 100% of the way on the above, right up until the last sentence. You believe (if I understand correctly) that world leaders gather in Davos to make plans to enslave the world under a unified New World Order (or similar). I believe that they go there to grandstand, be feted, and to basically assuage their rampant egos. The talking shop is a side issue, and besides, how on earth would a bunch of egos in the same room, all with their own agenda find anything to agree on? The only thing they can agree on is 'more of the same' that got them to that position.

But you're absolutely right about how the super-rich could solve world poverty at a stroke, and they'd hardly notice the loss.

The major problem that no-one seems to be talking about is that there are just too fucking many of us and the population is still increasing at a frightening rate. There needs to be a significant reduction in the population over multiple generations if we are to genuinely start to turn round the supertanker that is climate change/crisis.

But of course big business doesn't want that - they want an ever increasing pool of consumers to flog their wares to. The whole world-wide business model is predicated on the concept of continual growth. That concept simply isn't consistent with fixing the climate crisis for the benefit of as yet unborn future generations.