Covid restrictions - are you adhering or not?

[Horse]

I think that given all the variables you could just make up whatever suits your agenda, the statistics show what is, not what might have been, and it's very open to interpretation.

Country by country comparisons will require some hefty investigation of cause of death information, potentially to filter out causes like road deaths before looking at anything else.

However, when it is said that many of the 'covid deaths' are people with 'underlying health conditions', could that same rationale apply to 'other' deaths? Someone who didn't seek treatment, or couldn't be provided treatment, then died due to an 'underlying health condition'. Also, if hospitals don't have capacity to treat everyone, that's not really the 'fault' of lockdown.

That country by country comparison is likely to need to look at factors such as hospital capacity too, perhaps even population health.

[Mr. Dazzle]

If someone who has a long history of depression and self harm commits suicide during lockdown did they have an underlying condition?

Its basically impossible to unpick innit.

[Horse]

If someone who has a long history of depression and self harm commits suicide during lockdown did they have an underlying condition?

Its basically impossible to unpick innit.

Lockdown etc resulted in improved air quality - great for improved health etc. Increase in cycling, so improvement in health. Will that uptake be sustained? If so, will it lead to increase in casualties from crashes?

etc etc

[Docca]

Excess deaths during Covid pandemic innit?

Death certificates usual have:

- cause of death
-contributory factors that could have directly caused death
-underlying health issues.

It might be a bit more than that, and that’s probably poorly paraphrased, but it’s just to illustrate a point. If you had a tooth filling and then died of a gun shot wound to the head it’s highly unlikely you’ll have ‘tooth related death’.

Had Covid at time of death via death likely caused/expedited by Covid ( I.e pulmonary/cardiac etc).

[gremlin]

What's BMP a bit at the moment is the hypocrisy of many of my friends. I will hold my hands up and say I'm breaking the rules inasmuch as we're still going to see the in-laws as they're incapable of looking after themselves. Sometimes the wife's sister happens to be there. There you go, full 'fess up.

My missus the told me that one of her friends took a very disapproving tone when she mentioned this, saying we were reckless, etc., etc. Fair play, entitled to her opinion etc.

Anyhow, we took a walk to their house as it was the husband's (my mate) birthday. We see him leaving the house as we approached, along with his son-in-law. He happily admitted that his daughter has stayed over with said husband, as they wanted to celebrate New Year, all four of them.

I couldn't really GAS what people do, but bare-faced hypocrisy? FFS.

I'm finding a lot if this, people telling me how pious they're being, before slipping in a comment about how some family member come over, or a friend for cuppa. The best one was how one friend gave her sister a socially distanced lift to the garden centre so they could go shopping. I pissed myself laughing.

[Horse]

both amazes and annoys me that teaching staff aren't being offered the vaccine only lateral flow testing and that's a new development?

Filly travels between schools, there's been no suggestion of testing for her team.

Update on testing for primary teachers.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nuary-2021

Testing for primary staff under the weekly and daily testing programmes (announced on 15 December for secondary schools) will begin in the second half of January.

That's plan, anyway.

[Noggin]

both amazes and annoys me that teaching staff aren't being offered the vaccine only lateral flow testing and that's a new development?

Filly travels between schools, there's been no suggestion of testing for her team.

Update on testing for primary teachers.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nuary-2021

Testing for primary staff under the weekly and daily testing programmes (announced on 15 December for secondary schools) will begin in the second half of January.

That's plan, anyway.

Isn't one of the teacher unions advising staff not to go back to work? Can't remember what they are requesting but sure I read that somewhere


EDIT: here it is -

National Education Union
22h ·
Today, the National Education Union has taken the difficult decision to advise its members in primary and special needs schools, and early year settings, that it is unsafe to return to work on Monday.
Our union is calling on all primary schools to move to remote learning for the first two weeks of January except to vulnerable children and the children of key workers.
We are writing to employers, urging them to look at the advice of SAGE, the Government’s scientific advisory group, and we are urging our members, on the basis of that science, to use our model letter to inform their head teacher that it is unsafe for them to be in school – in crowded buildings with no social distancing, no PPE and inadequate ventilation
We are asking members to be available to work from home and to support remote learning.
This is a step we take with huge reluctance. But this Government is failing to protect children, their families and our communities. And it is failing in its duty of care to education staff who have worked tirelessly to look after children during this pandemic.
In December, we called for schools to be closed for two weeks at the start of the spring term in order to provide a circuit breaker and lower infections. Our view was ignored but our call has become even more urgent as the new variant of Covid-19 is spreading far more quickly than in March.
We now know that SAGE also called for all schools to be closed in January to keep the R rate below 1. This advice was issued on 22 December and ministers have done little to follow it.
The science now tells us that, although children largely do not become ill with Covid-19, they spread it to others. To their parents, their families and into their communities.
That is why SAGE wanted schools to close – as a way of keeping the public safe.
If Government does not act to follow the science, we must.
Our NHS is on its knees – infection rates are at their highest since March, hundreds are dying every day and hospitals are struggling to cope with a tidal wave of new cases.
Ambulances are queuing outside hospitals in the worst-affected areas, with patients being treated in car parks and some having to transfer intensive care Covid patients hundreds of miles to receive the care they need.
We cannot stand by and see our members, our pupils, their families and the communities we serve put in harm's way like this.
Our NHS heroes have been working flat out since March and are exhausted and fearful of how they will cope with the hugely increasing number of very sick patients.
We are education professionals, and we all want schools to be open for all pupils. We know, to our very core, how important education is to children’s wellbeing and life chances.
But we will not sit by and see the worsening of a health catastrophe in this way.
We hope you support us in our decision. Later today, we will be launching a petition for you to sign to support our decision.

[Mussels]

Isn't one of the teacher unions advising staff not to go back to work? Can't remember what they are requesting but sure I read that somewhere


EDIT: here it is -

I think they have been saying that continuously from the start.

[Noggin]

Isn't one of the teacher unions advising staff not to go back to work? Can't remember what they are requesting but sure I read that somewhere


EDIT: here it is -

I think they have been saying that continuously from the start.

I didn't keep up with it at the start. But it seems weird to go back to fully open schools when nearly every school has to send home a year at a time because of being in contact with the virus

Equally, I do get that it's a challenge to deal with all the kids being at home and parents being back at work. A no win situation for everyone

[Horse]

Isn't one of the teacher unions advising staff not to go back to work? Can't remember what they are requesting but sure I read that somewhere


EDIT: here it is -

I think they have been saying that continuously from the start.

The big difference now is that kids seem to be far more likely to contract the new variant. Their viewpoint has been supported by the government's advisors.

Councils are taking legal action to get that advice released.

Just this morning, Boris said:

Boris Johnson told the BBC stronger measures may be required in parts of the country in the coming weeks.
He said this included the possibility of keeping schools closed, although this is not "something we want to do".
But he added ministers had to be "realistic" about the spread of the new variant of the virus.

And this must be taken in the context that schools were struggling before Christmas with staff numbers (at least one of our local secondaries went completely online). Nothing has improved since then in infection numbers.

[Mussels]

Isn't one of the teacher unions advising staff not to go back to work? Can't remember what they are requesting but sure I read that somewhere


EDIT: here it is -

I think they have been saying that continuously from the start.

I didn't keep up with it at the start. But it seems weird to go back to fully open schools when nearly every school has to send home a year at a time because of being in contact with the virus

Equally, I do get that it's a challenge to deal with all the kids being at home and parents being back at work. A no win situation for everyone

They don't have to send entire years home for each case. My kids' school look at who the infected have been in close contact with and it ends up at around 30 people from what I have seen.
As Horse says it looks a bit different now, maybe if the unions hadn't said the same thing the whole way through I'd pay them more attention. I don't know which councils are calling for schools to be shut now but before Christmas it was just Labour councils, I bet if teachers only got paid when the schools are open it would be a different matter.

[Noggin]

I think they have been saying that continuously from the start.

I didn't keep up with it at the start. But it seems weird to go back to fully open schools when nearly every school has to send home a year at a time because of being in contact with the virus

Equally, I do get that it's a challenge to deal with all the kids being at home and parents being back at work. A no win situation for everyone

They don't have to send entire years home for each case. My kids' school look at who the infected have been in close contact with and it ends up at around 30 people from what I have seen.
As Horse says it looks a bit different now, maybe if the unions hadn't said the same thing the whole way through I'd pay them more attention. I don't know which councils are calling for schools to be shut now but before Christmas it was just Labour councils, I bet if teachers only got paid when the schools are open it would be a different matter.

I guess it depends on the school? My nephew's whole year got sent home for 10 days (I think) just before Christmas. But I suppose it also depends on how they 'manage' the kids within the school?

As for the rest, I haven't kept up on the politics of councils, unions etc. I haven't really kept up on the English stuff as much as maybe I should, but then I won't be in the UK till summer at the earliest!!

[Gedge]

I think they have been saying that continuously from the start.

I didn't keep up with it at the start. But it seems weird to go back to fully open schools when nearly every school has to send home a year at a time because of being in contact with the virus

Equally, I do get that it's a challenge to deal with all the kids being at home and parents being back at work. A no win situation for everyone

They don't have to send entire years home for each case. My kids' school look at who the infected have been in close contact with and it ends up at around 30 people from what I have seen.
As Horse says it looks a bit different now, maybe if the unions hadn't said the same thing the whole way through I'd pay them more attention. I don't know which councils are calling for schools to be shut now but before Christmas it was just Labour councils, I bet if teachers only got paid when the schools are open it would be a different matter.

I know the leader of the union..she only taught for a couple of years before jumping on the union gravy train..I doubt she has ever particularly wanted to teach ..fancies herself as a politician and no doubt will use this opportunity to get herself a role as a Labour MP.

[Taipan]

I think they have been saying that continuously from the start.

I didn't keep up with it at the start. But it seems weird to go back to fully open schools when nearly every school has to send home a year at a time because of being in contact with the virus

Equally, I do get that it's a challenge to deal with all the kids being at home and parents being back at work. A no win situation for everyone

They don't have to send entire years home for each case. My kids' school look at who the infected have been in close contact with and it ends up at around 30 people from what I have seen.
As Horse says it looks a bit different now, maybe if the unions hadn't said the same thing the whole way through I'd pay them more attention. I don't know which councils are calling for schools to be shut now but before Christmas it was just Labour councils, I bet if teachers only got paid when the schools are open it would be a different matter.

That's a very low and unfair opinion of teachers IMO. Most teachers I know work above and beyond and put in many unpaid hours. The concern with the teachers and support staff I know is the new strain is apparently being carried and spread by children in a new way and a lot of said people are in support bubbles themselves or simply don't want exposure to a potentially killer virus without adequate protection/vaccination.

[Horse]

I bet if teachers only got paid when the schools are open it would be a different matter.

That's a very low and unfair opinion of teachers IMO. Most teachers I know work above and beyond and put in many unpaid hours.

It's amazing the number of people who happily slag off teachers for having it easy, what with the alleged short hours / great money / long holidays - but those same people wouldn't do it themselves.

[Horse]

I know the leader of the union..she only taught for a couple of years before jumping on the union gravy train..I doubt she has ever particularly wanted to teach ..fancies herself as a politician and no doubt will use this opportunity to get herself a role as a Labour MP.

Fascinating. But, in the context of the new variant, increasing total infections and numbers of children infected, almost irrelevant.

[Gedge]

I know the leader of the union..she only taught for a couple of years before jumping on the union gravy train..I doubt she has ever particularly wanted to teach ..fancies herself as a politician and no doubt will use this opportunity to get herself a role as a Labour MP.

Fascinating. But, in the context of the new variant, increasing total infections and numbers of children infected, almost irrelevant.

In your opinion maybe ...but in a thread full of talk about political cronyism I would have thought that any notion of opportunism should be explored ? I bet if she had been a Tory calling for schools to be kept open it would have been deemed relevant ( although I was unaware until now that you were the official relevance consultant ) ..?

I suspect that it’s no coincidence that as she’s is officially a Portsmouth teacher with a Portsmouth power base that there has today been a rash of Portsmouth schools refusing to reopen ?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Christmas it was just Labour councils, I bet if teachers only got paid when the schools are open it would be a different matter.

Baby Dazzle's nursery is also a private school (technically she's in 'pre-prep' but its play school by any other name).

Unsurprisingly, they've been moving heaven and earth to remain open and to continue teaching online. If Kids don't go then they don't get paid.

Money talks.

[slowsider]

I know the leader of the union..she only taught for a couple of years before jumping on the union gravy train..I doubt she has ever particularly wanted to teach ..fancies herself as a politician and no doubt will use this opportunity to get herself a role as a Labour MP.

Fascinating. But, in the context of the new variant, increasing total infections and numbers of children infected, almost irrelevant.

If gedge is talking about Mary Bousted she was teaching from 1982 to 2003. Wouldnt you get a coppers pension for that length of service? Some opportunist.

[wheelnut]

Baby Dazzle's nursery is also a private school (technically she's in 'pre-prep' but its play school by any other name).

Unsurprisingly, they've been moving heaven and earth to remain open and to continue teaching online. If Kids don't go then they don't get paid.

Money talks.

It’s amazing how having to make a living and not having a guaranteed salary no matter what can concentrate the mind!