Yamaha’s points deduction

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Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by formula400 »

From Mat oxley

This is huge: Yamaha guilty of breaking MotoGP engine regulations. Am struggling to see how they could've done this "due to an oversight". Glad that only the constructor has been penalised, not the riders, but wondering if this is really the correct course of action
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by Skub »

Heh.

All that and still the 'slowest' bike out there!
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by Supermofo »

How does that work? Yamaha broke the rules, but the riders get no penalty. In a way I don't want them to get a penalty as it's been a great season but it sounds like a creative penalty rather than a letter of the law thing. The rider is the apex of all the factories efforts. If a Yamaha rider wins the title the other deductions won't really matter. Can't see the other teams not appealing.
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by Supermofo »

Actually wonder if the other teams have considered a big bore for the last 3 rounds. If you get caught it won't effect the rider it seems :lol:
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by weeksy »

I can't see how that works. Just because the riders were not aware doesn't mean they haven't gained an advantage from it. Therefore also gained points from it too. They have to dock points surely.
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by The Spin Doctor »

There was a very good podcast by Toby Moody / Julian Ryder about the engine blow-ups and the way that Yamaha might handle it a couple of months back. Fascinating listening. Don't recall they considered popping the engines open as an option, though.
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by Supermofo »

The Spin Doctor wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:43 am There was a very good podcast by Toby Moody / Julian Ryder about the engine blow-ups and the way that Yamaha might handle it a couple of months back. Fascinating listening. Don't recall they considered popping the engines open as an option, though.
It's alright it was an 'administrative oversight' :lol:
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by Yorick »

They changed the valves to another manufacturer. But same size and spec. No performance gain.
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by Supermofo »

Yorick wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:15 am They changed the valves to another manufacturer. But same size and spec. No performance gain.
But watching BT sport just now it sounds like they submitted the engine with valves made by 'A' manufacturer. They then changed to 'B' valves and won 2 races but suffered some blow ups. So swapped back to 'A' valves since. But they aren't supposed to open the engine, and it sounds like they did twice. Once to put B valves in and again to put A valves in.
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by MingtheMerciless »

At Yamaha I expect tanto are being polished and Kaishakuin being summoned for Seppuku. Thats a serious cock up.
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by Le_Fromage_Grande »

IMO it says it all about MotoGP, it's about entertainment and not competition, the manufacturers should be able to do what they like with their engines so long as the engine is the correct cc.
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by The Spin Doctor »

Julian_Boolean wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:37 pm IMO it says it all about MotoGP, it's about entertainment and not competition, the manufacturers should be able to do what they like with their engines so long as the engine is the correct cc.
Arguably, if you did that (again) you might as well cancel the races and just hand the title to whoever was prepared to open their chequebook more frequently.
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Re: Yamaha’s points deduction

Post by Yorick »

From the horse's mouth....

Code: Select all

Yamaha's Lin Jarvis explained to BT Sport how the situation occurred and why Yamaha believed the mix of valve suppliers for 'identical' parts was not against the rules.

Except that the valves weren't identical, due to 'nuances' between the two suppliers and due to a 'fault' with the new batch. However, documentation needed to prove this fault to Yamaha's rivals could not be provided to the MSMA, who would need to be convinced that Yamaha hadn't just pushed its valve design over the limit by using a lighter mix of materials.

"There's a big misunderstanding because people talk about 'switching valves'," Yamaha's Lin Jarvis told BT Sport.

"We planned to run this season with a certain spec of valves from a certain supplier. During last year when we were ordering parts we understood that the supplier was going to stop producing that valve.

"Yamaha then searched for another supplier with the same spec valve. No performance advantage. That was done and we then [had a mix] of valves from both suppliers for the 2020 season.

"Yamaha considered these valves to be identical. The regulations don't say you can't use two different suppliers, it says the parts must be identical in every respect. This was the misunderstanding in Japan.

"The sample engine for this season was then fitted with used [old] valves, let's call it valve 'type A'. But we began the season with eight engines with valve 'type B'. It was an innocent misjudgement of the regulations. 

"Then we had a technical failure [at Jerez] and when we investigated we found that not only the 'B' valves were different from the sample engine, but had a technical failure. Some weakness. The batch produced followed a different procedure. That's why we requested to the MSMA to change the valves. We were unable to get the evidence from the valve supplier so we withdrew that application and we looked for another solution.

"But we were transparent from the beginning that we wanted to use the other ['A'] valves, that are identical, and it was [during that discussion] that a red light alerted us that those valves could be considered different. So we suspended use of the [Jerez] engines, apart from practice and qualifying in Austria for two riders. All our engines, apart from the initial eight, have now been fitted with type ['A'].

"So it was an error in the protocol because there was no advantage gained. We should have asked permission... But we did not 'switch the valves'."

But the engine saga is far from over for Yamaha.

With their Jerez 1 engines parked, mileage is rising on the others - Vinales being forced to take an extra (sixth) engine at Valencia, meaning he will start the race from pit lane.

A similar fate could yet await Quartararo and Morbidelli in the remaining three rounds...