Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Bike Breaker »

Hoonercat wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:46 pm I see the UK has joined the likes of Germany and France in 'rubbishing' the AZ vaccine :hmmm:
Hardly 'rubbishing'.
Van-Tam:
in younger age groups, the risk/benefit balance is finely balanced.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

This is more about young people not being that susceptible to Covid isn't it?

In older people Covid presents a major risk, so some tiny extra risk of blood clots is justified. People under 30 are very very very unlikely to die from Covid, so the tiny risk of a blood clot isn't worth taking - particularly if there are other vaccines available.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Hoonercat »

Bike Breaker wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:03 am
Hoonercat wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:46 pm I see the UK has joined the likes of Germany and France in 'rubbishing' the AZ vaccine :hmmm:
Hardly 'rubbishing'.
Van-Tam:
in younger age groups, the risk/benefit balance is finely balanced.
Do I have to wait until the UK moves from under 30s to under 55s before I can call it 'rubbishing'? :wtf: Given the tone of language used throughout this thread whenever the likes of France or Germany raise caution about side effects of the AZ vaccine, I assumed it would be ok. Soz. :1
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Saga Lout »

Hoonercat wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:09 am Do I have to wait until the UK moves from under 30s to under 55s before I can call it 'rubbishing'? :wtf: Given the tone of language used throughout this thread whenever the likes of France or Germany raise caution about side effects of the AZ vaccine, I assumed it would be ok. Soz. :1
Some unprincipled people have noted the short time between the EU complaining that they're not getting enough of the AstraZeneca vaccine and threatening to interfere with the distribution and then telling everybody who will listen that the vaccine is unsafe to claim that the EU is acting out of malice. The two events are unrelated as anybody with both eyes closed can see.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by gremlin »

I do wonder how many people will shun the AZ vaccine on the basis of a negligible risk of a blood clot whilst complaining they still can't get on a long haul flight to the Maldives because of this pandemic.....
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Nobby »

gremlin wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:44 pm I do wonder how many people will shun the AZ vaccine on the basis of a negligible risk of a blood clot, yet are willing to risk DVT on a long haul flight to the Maldives
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by weeksy »

gremlin wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:44 pm I do wonder how many people will shun the AZ vaccine on the basis of a negligible risk of a blood clot whilst complaining they still can't get on a long haul flight to the Maldives because of this pandemic.....
17?
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Horse »

weeksy wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:32 pm
gremlin wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:44 pm I do wonder how many people will shun the AZ vaccine on the basis of a negligible risk of a blood clot whilst complaining they still can't get on a long haul flight to the Maldives because of this pandemic.....
17?
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by weeksy »

Horse wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:39 pm
weeksy wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:32 pm
gremlin wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:44 pm I do wonder how many people will shun the AZ vaccine on the basis of a negligible risk of a blood clot whilst complaining they still can't get on a long haul flight to the Maldives because of this pandemic.....
17?
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Supermofo »

Must admit with all the current info I'd rather have the Tizer than the AZ one, but I've already had the AZ first dose so bit late to worry now.

Plus I imagine my life chances are dramatically worse ever time I strap my lid on for a ride so the %'s in the game of life aren't terrible.

I just hope this is the only side effect. I should imagine there are others in all the vaccines that may come to light over the next months/years/decades but at the moment Covid is still more likely to get you now. So it's the usual life gamble I guess.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Horse »

Supermofo wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:25 am I just hope this is the only side effect. I should imagine there are others in all the vaccines that may come to light over the next months/years/decades but at the moment Covid is still more likely to get you now.
The full implications/ long-term effects of covid are still coming to light.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reu ... SKBN2BT2ZI

One in three COVID-19 survivors in a study of more than 230,000 mostly American patients were diagnosed with a brain or psychiatric disorder within six months, suggesting the pandemic could lead to a wave of mental and neurological problems, scientists said on Tuesday.

Researchers who conducted the analysis said it was not clear how the virus was linked to psychiatric conditions such as anxiety and depression, but that these were the most common diagnoses among the 14 disorders they looked at.

Post-COVID cases of stroke, dementia and other neurological disorders were rarer, the researchers said, but were still significant, especially in those who had severe COVID-19.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Taipan »

I saw this on FB yesterday. Not sure on the figures, but risk of blood clots from the pill is widely known.


"The incidence of serious blood clots from:
The Contraceptive Pill: 0.6%
The AZ vaccine: 0.00017%
AZ not being offered to the under 30’s because of the risk of blood clots. Think about that.
"
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Mussels »

Taipan wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:14 pm I saw this on FB yesterday. Not sure on the figures, but risk of blood clots from the pill is widely known.


"The incidence of serious blood clots from:
The Contraceptive Pill: 0.6%
The AZ vaccine: 0.00017%
AZ not being offered to the under 30’s because of the risk of blood clots. Think about that.
"
From the numbers on the BBC site it's 0.0004% that have clots and 0.00001% that die.
From the Metro it's 0.05% from the pill

Different numbers but the same story. AFAIK AZis still being offered to under 30s but they are being given a choice, probably just because the scaremongering could stop some getting any vaccine.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Saga Lout »

Mussels wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:49 pm
Taipan wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:14 pm I saw this on FB yesterday. Not sure on the figures, but risk of blood clots from the pill is widely known.


"The incidence of serious blood clots from:
The Contraceptive Pill: 0.6%
The AZ vaccine: 0.00017%
AZ not being offered to the under 30’s because of the risk of blood clots. Think about that.
"
From the numbers on the BBC site it's 0.0004% that have clots and 0.00001% that die.
From the Metro it's 0.05% from the pill

Different numbers but the same story. AFAIK AZis still being offered to under 30s but they are being given a choice, probably just because the scaremongering could stop some getting any vaccine.
Or maybe because even with that low risk from the vaccine, the risk from the virus for under 30s is even lower.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Horse »

Taipan wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:14 pm
"The incidence of serious blood clots from:
The Contraceptive Pill: 0.6%
The AZ vaccine: 0.00017%
Think about that.
"
Half the population will possibly find it interesting but, for them, inapplicable ;)
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by DefTrap »

Yeah but data from contraception is coming in over decades and time has been taken to collate, verify and analyse the data.
We're literally 3 or 4 months into vaccination, so despite the high numbers of vaccinated, data is still pretty sketchy.

Hence, prudence.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by irie »

Agree with you.

There are studies which show a high correlation between BMI and serious Covid-19 infection, hospitalisation, and mortality..

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... ct-the-nhs.
Living with excess weight puts people at greater risk of serious illness or death from COVID-19, with risk growing substantially as body mass index (BMI) increases. Nearly 8% of critically ill patients with COVID-19 in intensive care units have been morbidly obese, compared with 2.9% of the general population.
So the morbidly obese have ~2.75 times the chance of dying from Covid-19 than the general population. They may have other conditions resulting from obesity (such as type 2 diabetes), but obesity is the primary indicator.

I am surprised that there has as yet been no suggestion that vaccination cohorts should also be triaged on the basis of BMI. Presumably because it would be against their human rights.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

There's no central record of people's BMI so how would that work? Surely that's the bigger reason.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by cheb »

The bigger problem is that BMI is a flawed measuring system, at least in the way it's used.

Random article that proves I'm right: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 94951.html
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Saga Lout »

cheb wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:31 pm The bigger problem is that BMI is a flawed measuring system, at least in the way it's used.

Random article that proves I'm right: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 94951.html
When I first encountered BMI some 30 years ago, I thought I'd turned over two pages at once. I couldn't see how you could get a useful measure by comparing weight, a volume measure, with height squared. It should be height cubed. Using height squared the number will be too large for tall people and too small for short people.

I suppose we could use the Procrustean solution and make everybody the same height. That would work.