Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

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Potter
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Potter »

Saga Lout wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:12 pm
DefTrap wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:01 pm
Saga Lout wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:38 am
WIbbly wobbly Johnson or Always Wrong Ferguson. Who to believe? It's a poser, right enough.
Ferguson is just quoting the MHRA's position, which is and always will be, continuous review. He's not even putting any spin on it.
You know who the MHRA are right?
He's a charlatan. Why are people still listening to him?
He has an OBE and he's very good at getting funding.
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irie
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by irie »

DefTrap wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:14 am
irie wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:53 pm
On the other hand European countries are rushing headlong into deals for the supply of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine which has not (yet) been approved by the EMA (if it ever will).

Stupidity succinctly addressed by this letter.
And yet almost every other "deal for vaccines" was also done prior to regulatory approval.
How else were you able to highlight BJs foresightedness?

It's plunging new depths quoting Letters to the Editor from morons glued to the Telegraph by the way.
And what about these 'morons'?

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-miss ... es-target/
In the meantime, some countries have turned to other vaccine manufacturers to source their doses, but they don't play a big role overall. At the end of March, Hungary had received half a million doses of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine and 1.1 million doses of Chinese Sinopharm/Beijing, according to the latest data from the ECDC. And Slovakia received 200,000 doses of Sputnik in early March.
It doesn't say whether the Sputnik V and Sinopharm vaccines were actually administered so it is possible, but unlikely, that they're just sitting in storage awaiting authorisation.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Saga Lout »

Potter wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:14 pm He has an OBE and he's very good at getting funding.
No doubt you're right, but why? Doesn't his reputation precede him? Why do the people who fund him, fund him?
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by DefTrap »

irie wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:16 pm
It doesn't say whether the Sputnik V and Sinopharm vaccines were actually administered so it is possible, but unlikely, that they're just sitting in storage awaiting authorisation.
Maybe you should find out?
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Mussels »

DefTrap wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:01 pm
Saga Lout wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:38 am
WIbbly wobbly Johnson or Always Wrong Ferguson. Who to believe? It's a poser, right enough.
Ferguson is just quoting the MHRA's position, which is and always will be, continuous review. He's not even putting any spin on it.
You know who the MHRA are right?
I'm a little confused, Neil Ferguson has said MHRA are looking into it urgently. Nice that he's speaking on their behalf, is he part of MHRA or have MHRA publicly said that?
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Nidge »

Potter wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:14 pm
Saga Lout wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:12 pm
DefTrap wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:01 pm

Ferguson is just quoting the MHRA's position, which is and always will be, continuous review. He's not even putting any spin on it.
You know who the MHRA are right?
He's a charlatan. Why are people still listening to him?
He has an OBE and he's very good at getting funding.
I've worked on some projects with Ferguson for about 8 years. I don't think he's a charlatan; he is driven, can be difficult and not always pleasant but he is one of the most respected epidemiologists in the world with a strong track record and enviable H index. As far as I can tell he is motivated by the desire to make the world a safer place
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Potter »

Nidge wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:12 pm
Potter wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:14 pm
Saga Lout wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:12 pm

He's a charlatan. Why are people still listening to him?
He has an OBE and he's very good at getting funding.
I've worked on some projects with Ferguson for about 8 years. I don't think he's a charlatan; he is driven, can be difficult and not always pleasant but he is one of the most respected epidemiologists in the world with a strong track record and enviable H index. As far as I can tell he is motivated by the desire to make the world a safer place
I don't know about any of that, I just said he has an OBE and he's very good at getting funding, I have no basis to call him a charlatan (and I didn't).
The criticism comes from people way more qualified than me.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Nidge »

Potter wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:20 pm
Nidge wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:12 pm
Potter wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:14 pm

He has an OBE and he's very good at getting funding.
I've worked on some projects with Ferguson for about 8 years. I don't think he's a charlatan; he is driven, can be difficult and not always pleasant but he is one of the most respected epidemiologists in the world with a strong track record and enviable H index. As far as I can tell he is motivated by the desire to make the world a safer place
I don't know about any of that, I just said he has an OBE and he's very good at getting funding, I have no basis to call him a charlatan (and I didn't).
The criticism comes from people way more qualified than me.
Saga?
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Hoonercat »

irie wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:16 pm
DefTrap wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:14 am
irie wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:53 pm
On the other hand European countries are rushing headlong into deals for the supply of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine which has not (yet) been approved by the EMA (if it ever will).

Stupidity succinctly addressed by this letter.
And yet almost every other "deal for vaccines" was also done prior to regulatory approval.
How else were you able to highlight BJs foresightedness?

It's plunging new depths quoting Letters to the Editor from morons glued to the Telegraph by the way.
And what about these 'morons'?

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-miss ... es-target/
In the meantime, some countries have turned to other vaccine manufacturers to source their doses, but they don't play a big role overall. At the end of March, Hungary had received half a million doses of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine and 1.1 million doses of Chinese Sinopharm/Beijing, according to the latest data from the ECDC. And Slovakia received 200,000 doses of Sputnik in early March.
It doesn't say whether the Sputnik V and Sinopharm vaccines were actually administered so it is possible, but unlikely, that they're just sitting in storage awaiting authorisation.
Only a moron would turn his nose up at a vaccine because of where it was developed. It's all a bit Bill Gates ;)
Russia's Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine gives around 92% protection against Covid-19, late stage trial results published in The Lancet reveal.
It has also been deemed to be safe - and offer complete protection against hospitalisation and death. The vaccine was initially met with some controversy after being rolled out before the final trial data had been released.
But scientists said its benefit has now been demonstrated. It joins the ranks of proven vaccines alongside Pfizer, Oxford/AstraZeneca, Moderna and Janssen.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55900622
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Potter »

Nidge wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:22 pm
Potter wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:20 pm
Nidge wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:12 pm
I've worked on some projects with Ferguson for about 8 years. I don't think he's a charlatan; he is driven, can be difficult and not always pleasant but he is one of the most respected epidemiologists in the world with a strong track record and enviable H index. As far as I can tell he is motivated by the desire to make the world a safer place
I don't know about any of that, I just said he has an OBE and he's very good at getting funding, I have no basis to call him a charlatan (and I didn't).
The criticism comes from people way more qualified than me.
Saga?
I don't know what his qualifications are, I meant in professional circles. I'm certainly not qualified to question his professional capability.
Personally I don't have an axe to grind with him other than his Dominic Cummins style "The rules don't apply to me" episode.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

Potter wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:20 pm
I don't know about any of that, I just said he has an OBE and he's very good at getting funding,
Maybe he's good at getting funding 'cause he's good at what he does ('what he does' being things other than 'getting funding').
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Potter »

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:51 pm
Potter wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:20 pm
I don't know about any of that, I just said he has an OBE and he's very good at getting funding,
Maybe he's good at getting funding 'cause he's good at what he does ('what he does' being things other than 'getting funding').
It could be.
It could also be he's skilled at BD.
Could be both.

Great used car salesmen aren't necessarily good mechanics.

I'm open to the suggestion that people in senior roles are there because they're great at what they do, I am.
Not sure how it fits the political classes though.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by DefTrap »

Mussels wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:09 pm
I'm a little confused, Neil Ferguson has said MHRA are looking into it urgently. Nice that he's speaking on their behalf, is he part of MHRA or have MHRA publicly said that?
He's just parroting and stating the bleeding obvious, is the way I see it. He's not even colouring it. If every single epidemioligist is asked 24/7 for their opinion then the reporting of the banal will happen.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

DefTrap wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:16 pm
Mussels wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:09 pm
I'm a little confused, Neil Ferguson has said MHRA are looking into it urgently. Nice that he's speaking on their behalf, is he part of MHRA or have MHRA publicly said that?
He's just parroting and stating the bleeding obvious, is the way I see it. He's not even colouring it. If every single epidemioligist is asked 24/7 for their opinion then the reporting of the banal will happen.
Well yeah.

You've got the situation where multiple countries are restricting the use of AZ cause of clots. Even if you're the most mean spirited cynic you should concede that at least some people in those countries genuinely know what they're doing and they do it without agenda.

The MHRA would be remiss if they DIDN'T consider clotting as a potential issue. It's the reason they exist....you know, to consider stuff.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by DefTrap »

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:20 pm The MHRA would be remiss if they DIDN'T consider clotting as a potential issue. It's the reason they exist....you know, to consider stuff.
There's a system in place for this, as you would expect. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -reporting
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Saga Lout »

Nidge wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:22 pm
Potter wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:20 pm
Nidge wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:12 pm
I've worked on some projects with Ferguson for about 8 years. I don't think he's a charlatan; he is driven, can be difficult and not always pleasant but he is one of the most respected epidemiologists in the world with a strong track record and enviable H index. As far as I can tell he is motivated by the desire to make the world a safer place
I don't know about any of that, I just said he has an OBE and he's very good at getting funding, I have no basis to call him a charlatan (and I didn't).
The criticism comes from people way more qualified than me.
Saga?
Well, nice as it is to be so respected ( :D ) I'm basing my opinion on his "millions will die if everybody doesn't hide away... erm... except me, don't make me hide away 'cos I need to get my leg over".
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Mussels »

DefTrap wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:16 pm
Mussels wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:09 pm
I'm a little confused, Neil Ferguson has said MHRA are looking into it urgently. Nice that he's speaking on their behalf, is he part of MHRA or have MHRA publicly said that?
He's just parroting and stating the bleeding obvious, is the way I see it. He's not even colouring it. If every single epidemioligist is asked 24/7 for their opinion then the reporting of the banal will happen.
What is not obvious is adding the word 'urgent' to it, that changes it from routine analysis to something more panicked. Have MHRA said anything about it being urgent or is he just trying to put a spin on it?
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by DefTrap »

Mussels wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:44 pm What is not obvious is adding the word 'urgent' to it, that changes it from routine analysis to something more panicked. Have MHRA said anything about it being urgent or is he just trying to put a spin on it?
A blood clot is considered a "Serious Adverse Event", yes it's urgent. I wouldn't say "panicked" because I work in the industry, there's a process to work through, but you don't necessarily get an answer overnight and new data is coming in all the time. Patient Safety is paramount. Vaccines don't really get withdrawn very often though, not completely withdrawn anyway. A bit of caution is prudent sometimes.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by Hoonercat »

I see the UK has joined the likes of Germany and France in 'rubbishing' the AZ vaccine :hmmm:

Van-Tam:
in younger age groups, the risk/benefit balance is finely balanced.
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Re: Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

Post by irie »

DefTrap wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:03 pm ... A bit of caution is prudent sometimes.
Caution is always prudent when dealing with the unknown.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mhra ... lood-clots
The benefits of vaccination continue to outweigh any risks but the MHRA advises careful consideration be given to people who are at higher risk of specific types of blood clots because of their medical condition.
...
By 31 March 20.2 million doses of the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca had been given in the UK meaning the overall risk of these blood clots is approximately 4 people in a million who receive the vaccine.
...
As a precaution, administration of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca in people of any age who are at higher risk of blood clots because of their medical condition should be considered only if benefits from the protection from COVID-19 infection outweighs potential risks.
If alternative vaccines are available without these risks then it is logical to use them for 'at risk' groups. There may be other risks with these alternative vaccines which may become apparent after use, of course ...

My highlight
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno