Couchy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:44 pm
Another thought, has everyone who has abs actually tried it out ? 80mph then grab the brakes till the bike stops ? It’s impressive especially in the wet, if you haven’t go try it don’t wait till you need to do it. Same applies if you haven’t got abs but less of the grab and wait for the abs to sort it out
I remember you saying this to me a while back so last time at Pembrey in the wet I tried it from 100 mph and the bike stopped well with the juddering I would expect from ABS ….. First time I ever trusted the electronics since I have had them. I still haven’t made the ABS kick in on the road as 35 plus years of braking without skidding is a hard act to break
Couchy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:44 pm
So those that don’t brake in corners wtf do you do when you have to slow in a corner ?
Isn't trail braking when you brake before the corner then continue it into the bend?
Trail braking is when you brake for the corner and then as you turn in start to reduce the brake pressure as you go round the corner or in track terms go towards the apex.
Ok, that's what I thought. Braking into a corner.
So not 'braking in a corner'.
it allows the bike to turn in faster because the
Could the same not be achieved by hoiking the bars quicker?
Also, the front tyre will have a larger contact patch giving more front end grip.
If you read my comments above you’ll see that I state for the track it’s a different story and if using trail braking on track pretty much any bike will turn in faster because of the geometry change.
I definitely do this sometimes but I wouldn't rely on it in all corners. I don't believe that the geometry changes that much if you're doing it on the road unless you are doing it to the extend that you are on track. If you are braking that hard on the road going in to the corner it's not leaving you any wriggle room for the unexpected though.
It seems that I have been doing this since I was 16 years old and first riding on the road.
I didn't know until I was put on an advanced bike course 24 years later and was critised for still braking mid corner (my brake light was still showing).
Its the complete opposite now of course. I did consciously try to stop doing so, but found it impossible and it detracted from my ride.
There is some crossover, trail braking requires you to brake in the corner as does having to brake in a corner. Yes two separate things but the same skill. You’re judging how much brake you can apply and trying to feel how much grip you have for braking against grip for cornering. It’s a difficult skill to master. But modern bikes with cornering abs give an insight into it. You can brake leant over really hard certainly harder than you realise and the tronics are there to help out.
How you teach braking in a corner to the limit without crashing I dunno lol
I try to simplify it, at full lean the grip is all used by cornering, at half lean it’s 50/50 cornering and braking. Anything either side is split in varying degrees.
Bigyin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:32 pm
It’s also easier to do on those pesky telelever front ended BMW bikes
Oddly enough, it didn't seem to have much beneficial effect on mine - If you weren't careful there would be lots of clattery clunking from the back end as the rear suspension struggled (even more) to cope with the mass!
Typically, braking affects the balance by increasing weight on the front.
Why, then, would the rear struggle?
You've reduced some of the weight on the front, most of the braking was done before the corner using predominantly front brake (obvs dependent upon friction of surface) rear braking often causes 'squat' thereby reducing the effectiveness of rear suspension (dependent on layout of rear suspension and how brake torque arm is connected). Trail braking on the GSA definitely reduced compliance of the rear suspension.
Reading through that lot adds to the uncertainty, rather than reducing it, IMO. Words like "essential", "needed", suggestions that the alternative is to grab a handful, and that if you don't do it you won't be able to brake in a corner. Also, the idea that it's useful in some corners (by implication , not in others) but how do you know which ones until you've gone round them? My bike has a lot of engine braking, and if I "needed" to add front brake, which is "essential", to my slowing repertoire, I'd have to approach every corner significantly faster than I do on the ROAD. As I said, I can see its usefulness on track, where seconds count and you learn corners, but on the road? And as it involves braking early in the bend, up to the apex, what's the difference between this and "comfort braking" which is done because you're not sure if you've lost enough speed and is generally derided? As has been suggested, most (?) bikes sit up and so run wide if you brake when leant over; and increasing the contact patch? Well that's great, because you've now increased the need for an increased contact patch, a need that wasn't there before. Still not convinced, and the link above has made me more sceptical, not less.
This is another one of those things - like countersteering - which I file under "shit I've always just instinctively done but never referred to by name" .
TBF I could certainly stand to do it better, but I've been braking into and during corners since I first learned to ride a bike.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:56 pm
This is another one of those things - like countersteering - which I file under "shit I've always just instinctively done but never referred to by name" .
Wossat then?
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Couchy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:44 pm
So those that don’t brake in corners wtf do you do when you have to slow in a corner ?
Isn't trail braking when you brake before the corner then continue it into the bend?
Braking in a corner, for example, is if there's an obstruction, Isn't it?
This method allows you to brake later so essentially you are at full throttle for longer, so when you turn in you are still reducing your speed towards the apex.
So braking into the corner, up to the apex or thereabouts, "allows you to brake later"? Etc. I'll have to think about that a bit more...
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:56 pm
This is another one of those things - like countersteering - which I file under "shit I've always just instinctively done but never referred to by name" .
Isn't trail braking when you brake before the corner then continue it into the bend?
Braking in a corner, for example, is if there's an obstruction, Isn't it?
This method allows you to brake later so essentially you are at full throttle for longer, so when you turn in you are still reducing your speed towards the apex.
So braking into the corner, up to the apex or thereabouts, "allows you to brake later"? Etc. I'll have to think about that a bit more...
Watch the video I added, that explains it perfectly.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:56 pm
This is another one of those things - like countersteering - which I file under "shit I've always just instinctively done but never referred to by name" .
Wossat then?
Just don't think about it and you'll be fine.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:02 pm
Just don't think about it and you'll be fine.
One reason why I keep out of 'Staying Alive'. All that analysing automatic stuff fucks me up more than learning the hard way. I'm like a bumblebee that doesn't know it can't fly.
You wouldn't want to be carrying too much brake into many corners in my neck of the woods at the moment, tractor shit everywhere. not to mention potholes on Whitchurch bypass, effin disgrace.
.
